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    What does the dealer do?

    This seems to be the best place to ask...

    1. How does the dealer connect/interrogate the ECU on the K4x bikes (including my 2010 K1300GT)? What is the official BMW hardware/software nowadays? I've heard of INPA and ISTA but suspect these are artifacts.

    Yes I can call my one-and-only local dealer (who also services Harley and most of the sportbike brands) but they are difficult to get through to. Oh, and said one-and-only has no official competition for about 3,000 miles. This may reinforce their apparent reluctance to communicate.

    2. Tech info for my 2010 K1300GT is difficult to find. I have the factory REP-ROM, but it's only a parts replacement guide. The official parts diagram viewable through realoem.com etc. is really sparse in that part descriptions and the context of inter-connections to the rest of the machine are severely lacking. I would like to find descriptions of the functional sub-systems such as how is the fuel controlled, what are the "normal" parameter values (such as fuel pressure) etc for the various sub-systems. Functional relationships are all well documented in the aftermarket for older models such as my now-gone '85 K100RS, I only hope such info can be made to appear for newer models.

    #2
    Yeah, good luck with that. In my experience with German manufacturers they are very guarded with letting their proprietary info out. Like you say, maybe once the bike is so old they're not concerned with it anymore. Maybe Beech might know the logic but usually you have to be a factory tech to get that training and all of them aren't good, and that's not just for BMW, we run into that with Diesel engines a lot now that they're all PLC controlled.

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      #3
      Even Bmw dealer tech's does not have a complete wiring diagram of the electrics, when they are fault searching the electrics they have to hook up to a computer in germany, online, to see the wiring diagrams and then they only see small block's, not a complete wiring diagram.

      This is the same for all bikes after 2008. Forget about all that subinfo you want, best you can do is search each problem on the internet as they happen for you, hopefully someone has had the same and has info.

      For an example, ask bmw tech what the specification of the Bmw approved coolant for your bike is. Bet you $5 they only answer you will get is: Bmw partnumber....because truth is, they dont know, i asked Bmw sweden HQ and they could not find such info, the only thing they could say was the Bmw partnumber to order Bmw own brand, and that does not contain any specifications what so ever, not even wich approvals it holds. They then referred me to a master tech and he had....no fucking clue, he read on a bottle and all that was written was Bmw partnumber so he could not help me either.

      Lot's of searching i came up with a list, Bmw motorcycles need an approval called Bmw GS94000. That is not the same as Bmw N600 69.0 wich is for cars. both are amine and phosphate-free but differ in anticorrosion agents due to different alloys in the engineparts. (btw, Glysantine G48 is good, same as oem) I ordered Eurolub D-48 Extra. Also one of the few coolants out there with correct approval for bmw motorcycles.
      Now this is interesting, say you have new Bmw and out riding and find yourself in need of topping off the coolant. To be sure you dont break warranty you need to find a Bmw bottle of coolant, using something else they might deny warranty later if you have the wrong stuff in it. so that top-off might mean you have to get the bike on a trailer and to a bmw dealer.....for some simple coolant.

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        #4
        And if you want to do some service and check for faults and also code your bike, get motoscan and a Unicarscan ucsi2000 obd reader and adaptercable.

        https://www.obd-2.de/shop/profi-diag...CSI2000-K-LONG

        https://www.motoscan.de/2017/04/27/u...motoscan-app/#

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          #5
          I worked in Embedded Control Systems Development for 26 of my 30 years at a major Construction Equipment Manufacturer. The last 4 years was in Product Support. These systems are complex and continue to get more complex.

          Some Dealer Service Personnel work on these systems with ease and impressive understanding...but these persons are rare in my experience. Most struggle and become frustrated. They mainly do what we call "swap-tronics" style of troubleshooting. We'd regularly receive EMCs/Displays that the Dealer had said was bad but they'd bench test fine. We called them NFF (no fault found). This was ~25% of returned electronic devices.

          Here's an option for you...Join the SAE (www.sae.org) and take advantage of the extensive training courses they offer in all things transportation and especially for Embedded Control Systems/Displays.

          I have a Hex-Code Device and am very comfortable using it on my K1300S. I also use RossTech VCDS on our VWs. If I hadn't worked in Embedded Controls Development for 26 years I'd likely be struggling like most folks.
          '11 BMW K1300S - Cobra SP2 Slip-On Muffler, OEM Centerstand, Grip Puppies, OEM Rear Rack, OEM Bags, Three Vent Holes in Filler Neck, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Kickstand Foot, Ilmburger Rear Hugger, Throttle Meister, Stebel Horn, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers, Corbin Seat, Z-Technik Smoke Windscreen, R&G Frame Sliders

          Comment


            #6
            Okay, finally coming back to the thread I started.

            My k1300GT ran poorly and on the advice of members of ibmwr, I installed four new ignition coils and spark plugs. This required me to buy the vacuum tool to refill coolant. I got the "BMW Blue" coolant at an independent parts shop I trust. Total of coils, plugs, coolant and vacuum tool was about $800. All of this and bike still ran very poorly. too rich.

            I had road service on my GEICO policy and they towed the bike to the dealer. The tech identified that the fuel pressure sensor was faulty, sending low pressure readings to the ECU, which tried to compensate by lengthening the injector duty cycle, resulting in a very rich running bike. $1400 please, and by the way you didn't set one of the coils down firmly on one plug so we fixed that also.

            Later I ran into the tech at lunchtime and we had quite a talk. He is frustrated that BMW is turning mechanics into parts-replacers. First thing he HAS TO DO is connect each incoming bike to the computer and register it with der vaterland. In turn the tech is instructed to perform several tests. At the end of this, usually it is instructed to change this-or-that part.

            I am now told by hat tech that there is NO customer-available service data (I have the rep-rom, a good parts replacement guide) and even he does not know specs or an operational description.

            I have confirmed that the bike runs an alpha-n injection scheme, rare nowadays. Alpha-n is useful in engines with individual throttle bodies where manifold pressure is normally low. The system has weaknesses but IMHO complexity is not one of them. The major inputs to the ECU is crank rpm and throttle position. These basic inputs are modified by coolant temp, barometric pressure and ambient temperature. Each of these sensors is barely identifiable on the parts fiche. The fuel pump runs a constant pressure. I suspect there is a single basic fuel fuel map, modified by inputs from these peripheral sensors. No info as to how ignition parameters are controlled. The ECU has no way of determining engine load other than to compare throttle opening angle to crank speed.

            I got a used GS-911 which gives downloadable readouts of numerous active inputs to and outputs from the ECU. However, no one at HexCode or their online forum can/will tell me what the correct basic operating parameters are. Hexcode has to know... Not tell me WTF good is a measuring tool without a standard or baseline to compare the measurement to? For instance, I had remarkably constant fuel pressure reported in my bike while it was running very poorly. But no one could say what correct pressure was supposed to be, or whether it should vary, so the data were of no use to me. The tech who worked on my bike got no satisfaction from Motorrad, and only discovered that the fuel pressure sensor was bad by connecting a fuel pressure gage and finding it read considerably different values than what the onboard sensor was telling the ECU.

            I certainly learned something and went away light of pocket. Anyone wants to continue this, please do, and I'll contribute to the extent I can.
            Last edited by Honolulu; 09-03-2019, 02:00 AM.

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              #7
              Thanks for sharing the follow-up story...

              Now that it is running correctly you can take Sensor Value readings and save them as "Baseline" Data. Therefore you can refer to these "correct" parameters in the future as a reference.

              1. Record Sensor parameters at Low Idle Speed no load.
              2. Record Sensor parameters at 3,000 RPM no load.
              3. Record Sensor parameters at 5,000 RPM no load.

              If you can, try to make a consistent run shifting through the gears, shifting at a pre-set RPM (say 3,000 RPM), and again record the Sensor parameters for future reference.

              Since I have a GS-911 I should probably do this myself as well.
              '11 BMW K1300S - Cobra SP2 Slip-On Muffler, OEM Centerstand, Grip Puppies, OEM Rear Rack, OEM Bags, Three Vent Holes in Filler Neck, Kuykendahl Riser Plates, Kickstand Foot, Ilmburger Rear Hugger, Throttle Meister, Stebel Horn, ABM Synto EVO Brake/Clutch Levers, Corbin Seat, Z-Technik Smoke Windscreen, R&G Frame Sliders

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